Tale of Two Churches: A Witness by Randy Thomas (May 3, 1999)

+Letters +Essays

How one ex-gay man is reaching out as a witness to the conservative Church so that she may become a safer and more inviting place for persons who experience same-gender attraction.

Sunday Night.

I went to speak at Greenland Hills UMC with Rev. Joe Florence. We were invited by the Pastor of this church, Kathleen Baskin. We got along famously.

I met Joe at 5:30 pm for prayer. At 6pm we started to have dinner with the congregation. It was a light supper but I wasn't very hungry. A lovely lady introduced herself and was very interesting and affable. Rev. Florence seemed to be nervous. I scanned the room and there were several lesbian couples with newborns, and it seemed that the audience was mostly gay or lesbian. This was not what was expected. It was expected that the people to come this evening were going to be predominantly ever str8's who hadn't made up their minds on the issue of homosexuality. This may have been true for the congregation as a whole but the ones who made it to this evening's talk were predominantly gay.

I have to say that usually when I go speak nowadays I am not nervous. This time was different. I was so nervous I was shaking. However, I did make it to meet all the babies. They were beautiful and precious. As I walked around I noticed that I was being avoided which made my nervousness even worse. Thank the Lord for the lovely lady who went out of her way to speak with us. She helped me more than I think she knew.

Kathleen introduced Joe and I. She started off with some very good points and quotes in regards to how to listen and the importance of dialog with those who have an opposing viewpoint.

Joe got up to speak first. He confessed that where his church is at right now they would deal with homosexuality by a don't ask don't tell kind of thing. He confessed that he didn't really know how to speak his beliefs in perhaps a none hurtful way so he asked for forgiveness beforehand if he said anything inappropriate. However, he didn't really talk about homosexuality. He did describe the confessing movement credo "Jesus is the Son, the Savior and Lord." It was very interesting to hear his explanation of this but it was, to me at least, basic Christian belief. This must not be the case for the Methodists as a whole or there wouldn't be a whole Confessing "movement" to uphold these beliefs. He then introduced me.

I made my way to the front trying to maintain a smile. My heart was pounding. I was sweating bullets. Here is basically what I said. It may be verbatim in some parts, paraphrased in others or details left out. The reason is , I have slept since then. I will try to do the best I can to accurately reflect the evenings events.

I got up to the podium and thanked the congregation for having me there. I commended them on their bravery for dealing with this issue in a fair way. (Background, they have been studying this for six weeks and one week it is pro-gay and the next week it would be someone with the conservative Christian "it's something to overcome" perspective.) I told them that I was nervous and asked them to join me in prayer.

I don't remember all that I prayed but I do remember the Holy Spirit inspiring me to ask the Lord to knit our hearts (the congregation and mine) together in Peace and accept the Lord's invitation to come and Reason with Him. I also asked that He just take over and put me aside.

I then read the Exodus purpose and mission statements. I explained that there were over a hundred and twenty ministries. What most people would see is the politically active one's however Exodus is not, over-all a political group. However, just like any network of affiliated ministries who have the same doctrinal and theological belief they will all have a different way of approach that cross a wide spectrum.

I quickly stated that I detested politics, however if Bush doesn't sign the hate crimes legislation with the gay/lesbian language in tact I would join them in their letter writing campaign. "That may be the only thing we agree on politically but hey you do what you can do." :::supportive chuckling, they understood:::

This was followed up with describing Living Hope in Belief, Approach and Structure. This was straight out of our brochure and very formal and fast. Everything up to this point was mostly "these are the facts kind of attitude" with a little bit of me popping in here and there. When I finished with the LHM information I had used 12 minutes of my 15 minute time. And I had despondency in my heart because I knew that they heard me but I also knew that they still didn't have quite a face to place on the beliefs. The next thing out of my mouth got their attention and shocked even me.

"When I first got to Living Hope I read all this nice information that I just shared with you and it didn't mean jack to me. I didn't understand it. I was a brand new Christian who didn't like most of you Christians because you were weird:::surprised looks and laughter::: I just knew that the Lord had moved on me powerfully to overcome homosexuality. He touched me in prayer by reminding me of the first man I ever fell in love with. Not the first one I had sex with but the first one that I gave my complete being too, mind, body, emotions and soul. His name was Ron. In my minds eye the Lord was standing near with a universe of grief. His head was bowed and I couldn't see His face and he was shaking with grief. Ron and I were in a lovers embrace oblivious to the Lord standing by. During this prayer I could feel the Lords grief and it would have killed me if I had even an inkling of the true grief the Lord had. Christ reminded me of the scripture I hated the most. Leviticus 18:22 and asked me "Randy, what is the abomination?" In the midst of the not understood grief and tears I remembered this scripture and diagrammed it in my mind and saw that the gender-neutral pronoun "it" was the abomination. The Lord said "What is IT?" I said a gender-neutral pronoun and He said "Exactly!" Then it dawned on me that neither Ron or I were the abomination like a certain televangelist with a Teletubbie problem :::uproarous laughter::: said we were. It was what we were doing :: -0. One beautiful lady scrunched up her face, crossed everything she could cross and said softly "no":::. I hesitated as she noticed that I noticed and pain ripped my heart. I am sure it came across on my countenance because it registered with the crowd. However, I had to continue so I said," Ron and I were trying to fulfill and complete each other in a way God never intended for two men to do so and we had no clue that we could bring everything to God. The Lord was grieving over what we were doing and our lack of relationship with Him. He was also grieving because He knew Ron would die a year later because of complications due to AIDS. So if you ever hear that AIDS is God's curse, you tell them they are absolutely wrong, but that is a different soap box I won't get on to now.

God poured His love out on me that day. I never heard that scripture explained that way. It had always been used to send me to Hell. Little did I know that God loved me in spite of my sin. I knew that God, if truly omniscient, He would know what is best and right and apparently homosexuality wasn't what was best or right. So when I showed up to Living Hope, that is all I knew. When I got there they didn't force me to do anything. They let me come on my own free will. They encouraged me to discover who I am in Christ. Over time I learned some sin motivation but I also discovered a ton of legitimate need that once I fulfilled them with what I believe God wanted me to do with them my homosexual struggles diminish and my character became more Christ like. Now 7 years down the road I have experienced somewhat of an orientation shift even though I still deal with same gender attraction. However, the goal is not to become a raging heterosexual. It is to become Christ-like. I have seen most people who have joined me for the long haul on this path that healthy heterosexuality is a by product of this pursuit of Christ-likeness, but whether that develops or not is not uniquely the mark of change. The mark of change comes in stewardship of our lives and being content in all things. It is a very personal journey for each individual but for me I can say that I have changed because I find my identity in Christ alone and I seek to steward my mind, body and soul in submission to His Will. If I die struggling that is just fine because I know that I have pursued Christ and His Will. He never promised it would be easy but He did promise to be there.

:::stunned silence:::. Not uncomfortable but one of thosewow, what do you do with this?" kind of looks on several of the people in the Congregation.

Looking at my watch I said. Can you believe I am only two minutes over? I thought to myself that this is amazing that I delivered all of the above in 17 minutes. It was my turn to look stunned.

After Q&A, they broke down into small groups. The other minister and I had to come up with questions for the groups to discuss. He came up with one about what they thought the confessing movement credo meant. Mine were as follows:

1. How much of our identity should be based on sexuality? (Distinct from gender identity.)
2. In an age of inclusiveness and tolerance is there room for the exgay?
3. Is sexuality fluid? Can a person move among the spectrum of sexuality or is it fixed?

About six of my friends from Living Hope came to support me and encourage me. I expected them to leave during the break out sessions but none of them did. They all stayed and there were 3 or 4 of them in each of the three groups. Each group had about 20 people. Rev. Florence and I stood outside and talked some. He complimented me and I just pointed to the Lord. I was developing a migraine but I prayed for the break out groups and watched the rain. Texas is beautiful this year. We have had the perfect amount of rain and sun for the vegetation to look lush and full. I felt as if the Lord were reminding me of when you speak of His and your Love relationship it always brings refreshing. I felt His Peace.

Once the break out sessions finished. Joe and I walked back in to the big room and everyone had formed a big circle to hold hands and I assumed to pray. Rev. Joe was on my right and a lesbian couple with a three week old young man named Noah were to my left. Kathleen looked up and said, "You know when you boil it all down, we are all sinners and we all need Jesus. So in honor of our visiting Baptist :::all eyes turn toward me and very warm laughter::: we are going to sing the first verse of Amazing Grace." I laid my hand on the new Mom's shoulder (cause she had to hold her baby) and gripped Joe's hand and sang Amazing Grace. Remember that only two nights before I had told my friend Stephen that any time I walk through tense or hard times the Lord is faithful to encourage me with one of two songs and I don't have to even find the tape he brings the songs to me. The two songs are "You are my all in all" by Dennis Jernigan or "Amazing Grace."

So we sang and afterwards many people thanked me for coming and putting aside their fears. I was amazed that a number of people told me they were literally "afraid" of me before tonight but they thanked me for being so gentle and respectful. Kathleen came up and gave me a huge hug and said "You are such a great speaker and completely disarming. I am so glad you came tonight." I was humbled because it certainly was not me, I was shaking like a leaf, it was all God. I said good bye to everyone and headed out the door. For some reason I headed back inside, probably to make sure I told Kathleen goodbye but I was stopped by a gentlemen and we talked for the next hour and a half about, well just about everything. I won't give details because he is very concerned about confidentiality but I would have you know that it was a special time. I believe I made a new friend.

I had a low-grade migraine by the time I wearily climbed into my truck and started heading back to Arlington. I played a worship CD and sang to the "Lover of my Soul" about His goodness, His faithfulness and His Love.

Monday Night

Where in the world is this place? I searched the Internet to find the map to this small town in Northeast Texas. I found great directions from www.mapquest.com.

We had been invited to come and speak to a Baptist congregation up there that was in crisis. There had been a park sting (police arresting gays for public lewdness) and two schoolteachers and one doctor were arrested. This town was extremely small, population only in the hundreds, so everyone knew each other. So, not only are these three men's lives basically destroyed in the community, the congregation is in crisis because they feel betrayed because their whole image of these men have changed and yet they still want to do what God would have them do. In this town homosexuality is not talked about and if it is, it is often accompanied with graphic presentations of hell.

I had to work at my bill-paying job till 4:30. My friend Stephen was going to go with us to see us speak. The traffic going to there was terrible given the time of day but it gave Stephen and Eddie a chance to really get to know one another.

We made it to the Church right at 7pm. We didn't have time to stop for dinner. As we pulled up, in the middle of nowhere, my heart hit the floor. There were all these old beat up trucks in front of a tiny little church with your typical good 'ol boys hanging all over them. They were young, worn out boots, ball caps bent in the middle of the bill. Harsh eyes. Stephen was saying something like. "Oh Lord Jesus, help us, protect us, they are just people," I prayed for the Lord to give us courage and forgive us our stereotypes." Eddie didn't seem to notice that Stephen and I were very fearful, but Eddie has never been beat on by guys like these before either. I don't blame him at all he just wouldn't relate so much I think. Later on our way home Stephen and I talked about the times we had been attacked for being gay. I think the Lord was dealing with us to overcome these naturally occurring reverse prejudices. We may have been victims once but we didn't have to portray these men as being the same type of men that attacked us.

We got out of the car and I went straight up to them and I noticed that they were all very casual and not tense at all. I asked politely if they knew where Pastor Jones was. A young man said, "Yes, sir he is right through those doors. He'll be the real bald headed one." They all chuckled at this. I could see that this was something the young one must really tease the Pastor about. I had a sense of being included on a private joke. I felt a connection there and my fears abated some, he had called me sir in a non-mocking way and if you are from the south you know that Ma'am and sir are terms of respect. I received it as such and confidently walked in the door.
Eddie, Stephen and I are all in our 30's and we were the youngest there easily by 10 or 15 years. Stephen was just going to watch but the Pastor introduced him as a friend of ours and then he turned it over to Eddie and I.

There were about 20 people there. We could tell by the stats on the wall that attendance last Sunday was 81 people so we thought that it was incredible that perhaps more than 70% of the adults of this church had come to hear us speak. Eddie and I have what we call the "usual" presentation. We don't have it memorized because we Trust the Lord to orchestrate our words but we do know the order. Eddie introduces the ministry and explains the purpose and need for Living Hope. Tonight he was moving in the Spirit in a confident way and it was great watching my Brother stand boldly proclaiming Truth. Then I get up and give a long version of my testimony to which then Eddie closes and we take Questions and Answer them.

As Eddie was introducing the ministry at one point he asked them what was normally thought and believed about homosexuals in general. Some of the answers were that homosexuals would burn in hell, homosexuals were dirty, That they were an abomination. I could tell they were a little reserved because of our presence but I think they felt relieved to be a 'part of' the conversation as well. Eddie told them of how Jesus was seen with prostitutes and tax collectors and people that society shunned and rejected. That we needed to be there for homosexuals and to love and serve them as Christ would. He then invited me to come up and share my testimony. I prayed for the Lord to tell His story of my Life and to bring us His presence. I shared my testimony and I held back a lot of details that I usually share because I could just tell it took mountains of courage for these people to even be here. They had made all the kids leave and at one point even locked the door. This showed me that this was tough for them and they were taking this very very seriously. I did push them to the limit but the Lord held my tongue on several things that in a bigger city would be nothing. For example; The Lord used a drag queen to save my life. Not only that, this drag queen professes Christ. I told them that a drag queen, and I had to explain what that means to them, had saved my life in Jesus name. Eddie was shifting in his seat. I did not tell them Tim's stage name, I did not tell them everything he said to me but I did ask them if they thought God could Sovereignly use a drag queen to save someone's life? To my relief two ladies near the back were nodding their heads yes. I said "Will I see Tim in Heaven?" If Jesus is truly his Lord, yes I will, but the point is this, the gay community was more of a community in my time of need for me than the church. The church had condemned me. This has to and must change."

All the men said "Amen."

I finished my testimony and Eddie got up to close the presentation and start the Q&A time.

After Q&A, Eddie and I stayed there to answer questions. I was immediately approached by the man with the piercing eyes. He shook my hand and said that he was very grateful that we came out to share with them. He said," I was raised in a very strict fundamental God-fearing Christian home. We were taught that gays were going to hell and that we were proud for them to go there." I said, as meek as possible, "that it is good to come to the place to realize that attitude was as much a sin as anything a gay person could do." His face always remained solid but his eyes flickered on that statement and I knew that it rocked his world but he had received that Truth. He said that he was a chaplain at the local prison and he wanted me to come out to the prison in the future and give my testimony. He walked off to see Eddie who was also surrounded by people. Piercing Eyes' wife stayed to talk to me about her cousin who had died of AIDS and she was a little more expressive. As eyes welled up she told me that he never could tell her that he was gay. He never told her what he was dying of even though they had a terrific friendship and loved each other deeply. She looked at me with tears streaming and said, "Why couldn't he tell me?" "Why?" I told her that I couldn't say for certain cause I didn't know him, but perhaps he was afraid or ashamed. She said, "Well maybe if he had felt free to tell me I could have ministered to him, I loved him and I never rejected him or his friends. They were terrific people." I responded, "Your loving him in spite of the unspoken knowledge of what was going on, ministered more to him than you may ever know. You loving and accepting him as your cousin and friend was a tremendous ministry to him." She said thank you very much and to switch the subject explained that her husband was a preacher at the prison and because homosexuality is prevalent there he has spoken to the issue. The inmates have feedback cards and many of them told him they were extremely offended by him. She said it absolutely crushed him. He didn't know how to change what he said to be more loving but she was excited that we would be willing to go to the prison. It was my feeling that she hoped that the inmates would see the love in her husband's heart simply by the fact that he had invited us to speak.

Another one of the after talk visitor's really broke my heart. He was slightly taller than me. He had a dark but receding hairline that spoke wisdom to me. He was a rugged man with an electric blue short sleeved golf shirt on. Big belt buckle with wranglers and boots. I looked into his face and eyes and I caught him and he knew he was safe. As someone jostled him to get by, he seemed pained, he put his tough and calloused hand over his heart and with a quivering lip and eyes that couldn't hold back tears said in the softest voice I heard that night "What you and your friend said has impacted my li life." I have never struggled :::dropping his hand and adjusting his pants around his waist ::: even though still openly weeping::::: but I have a family member and I :::chokes up::: wellll I just, You know I am a pretty tough guy and this just.well thank you sir." I said your welcome and thank you for having me here tonight but I prayed that my eyes said, "I know, I love you. God loves you. He knows you and your family member's pain. I know you want and need to be hugged and someone to pray for you while you grieve whatever the pain in your heart is." As I watched he and his wife leave I saw him falter. I knew the Holy Spirit was speaking things to him. That there was unfinished business and he knew it. I pray that he would have the courage to call us about the unanswered questions and need.

Stephen was in the back and he looked as though he were praying.

Eddie and I packed up and said our good-byes. As we walked through the doors of the tiny white church into the ink blackness of the night, a flash memory occurred of the time I left a bar and a truckload of men with guns come flying up taunting and ridiculing us. I thought I was going to be murdered as I pushed my boyfriend at that time down. I had a body memory of the muscles in my head tensing as I knew one of the shotguns was going to find it's way to the back of my head. However, I pushed aside the fear and remembered the Lord was before me making the way and behind me protecting me. Those young men were not the same men who did that to me.

We piled into the car and Stephen was talking about how great the presentation was. I picked on Eddie a little bit just cause he needed to be razzed some. I hadn't picked on him all night and well it was just time. That is one of the ways we tell each other that we love each other. Plus, I needed the diversion.

I was actually zonked. After the UMC deal the night before, going to work 8 hours starting at 8am (the bill paying job) and then going to speak out in the country and missing supper. I was zonked and privately crankyunusual I know. It was 10 pm and Eddie and I went into predatory mode looking for food. It was like two lions searching for a Wildebeest. Stephen was yapping about something and Eddie was like "Is that a restaurant?" No Ed, keep movin'". We ate at Chili's FINALLYonce we got back into something that looked like a town. On our final leg home Eddie and Stephen talked about counseling programs. I would slip in and out of sleep. Praying for Mr. piercing eyes, cousin and electric blue.

When Eddie and I dropped Stephen and I off at my truck. Stephen and I had a good conversation as I took him to his truck. I opened the door to my home as thunder started to crack and rain began to fall. My brother called from Seattle. It was Midnight and he gave me the good news that I was about to become an Uncle. To which I hollered and hooted with glee. My head finally hit the pillow at 1 am and I was out like a light and slept really good even though it stormed most of the night. The sound of rain calmed my soul.

Note: a couple of names were changed or not offered to protect anonymity.

Randy Thomas

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Updated 11-24-99. Written May 3, 1999.